00:00:53:01   I went toward applied arts in a way,
00:00:54:16   may be unconsciously but
00:00:56:22   the presumption of an eighteen year old
00:00:59:09   to say I am an artist !
00:01:01:12   I was quite afraid!
00:01:04:03   And I'm still today ! I work in the applied arts,
00:01:06:00   on ordered works.
00:01:08:21   And later, you can develop an artistic practice.
00:01:25:20   In 1897 Stéphane Malarmé
00:01:28:24   with his : "A throw of the dice will never abolish chance"
00:01:31:22   challenged the layout as we know it.
00:01:34:03   Look! He completely broke up text.
00:01:37:00   There are no more columns, we have an extraordinary text!
00:01:39:20   I show you this because, it's essential,
00:01:42:21   that shape is meaningfull.
00:01:45:15   The way we do the lay out,
00:01:48:06   the characters we use, the colour, the format
00:01:50:12   produce a significant emotion.
00:01:51:20   It's not to look pretty!
00:02:00:02   On an interaction design level, there are plenty of ideas
00:02:01:21   you even have sound design arriving,
00:02:04:00   it's something that's global.
00:02:06:21   You can make a site where you navigate uniquely by the sound
00:02:08:23   or just by a vibration feedback.
00:02:10:05   One can imagine a lot of things.
00:02:12:11   We now have webcam on the web,
00:02:15:00   we have sound, we have the keyboard.
00:02:16:09   There are interfaces for input an output.
00:02:18:14   There are lots and all sorts of possibilities
00:02:21:09   and it is necessary to create a grammar in all that.
00:02:24:02   First I have an idea which I hope is consistent
00:02:26:08   with the content and the message we want to comunicate.
00:02:28:20   I experiment a little afterwards,
00:02:30:11   and then you try it out on someone else,
00:02:32:03   and then it's horrible !!
00:02:35:03   You're behind saying to yourself: "but why doesn't he click there ?"
00:02:37:03   My wife Claire is the first to test,
00:02:39:15   and I'm: " but go for it, click there !!"
00:02:41:23   Then it's true that you learn a lot of things,
00:02:44:08   on the notion of "usefulness".
00:02:47:08   ie : "it's obvious for me to drag-n-drop",
00:02:49:10   but obviously... if one doesn't tell you, it isn't.
00:02:51:14   Sometimes while programming, you achieve an incredible feat
00:02:54:22   but in fact it is useless.
00:02:56:14   Yeah it's all in 3D ! Super !!
00:02:59:16   If it was in 2D it would be easier to read !
00:03:03:00   You have to return backwards and that's hard.
00:03:16:07   I was born in May 1968, when I was 10,
00:03:18:08   my dad brought back a computer each weekend
00:03:20:23   for me to work on, a Lisa for example,
00:03:23:10   and after a Commodore 64 and from there,
00:03:24:14   I started a little programming.
00:03:26:13   Simple things but even if you do not go too far,
00:03:28:11   you understand how computer language is structured
00:03:31:17   and especially that it's not magic, far from it in fact.
00:03:34:08   So I drew a lot, I loved the images
00:03:36:12   the computer was really separate,
00:03:37:23   or rather, it was for video games, or technical things.
00:03:39:12   Once into "Decorative Arts" school,
00:03:42:15   I said to myself :" it's funny one can make images with that !
00:03:45:10   We can bring things together !"
00:04:18:21   When I was in second year in graphic design at ENSAD,
00:04:21:21   Emmanuel Olivier who was in industrial design,
00:04:23:00   was looking for someone
00:04:25:02   because he had started to work on interactive systems.
00:04:27:10   He had to design screens interfaces.
00:04:29:22   Pictures to interact with, and the notion of user.
00:04:32:24   Ergonomics and uses were new concepts,
00:04:34:09   there were no works about it.
00:04:37:19   I tried to use, in the history of graphic design,
00:04:39:23   people who could help us with what we were doing
00:04:41:14   which was still very new !
00:04:43:23   We, our generation, had the opportunity
00:04:46:14   to work very quickly on real cultural projects
00:04:48:09   with a Cd-rom which was interactive.
00:04:51:14   It was really interesting because we started to
00:04:53:20   see clearly what could be done.
00:04:56:15   Before that, they were only products of hard-line engineers
00:04:58:16   like the first cash machines,
00:05:00:07   very fonctionnal and industrial
00:05:03:22   and all of a sudden, we come into a more cultural domains;
00:05:04:24   The edition world.
00:05:07:01   New issues and questions started arriving,
00:05:10:10   which were pretty interesting.
00:05:48:10   We won the Milia d'or in 2000
00:05:53:16   with a Cd-rom that was a biography of Freud.
00:05:58:10   We called it "archeology of the unconscious".
00:06:00:12   The idea was to force the user
00:06:03:06   to scratch the surface of the interface and discover the content.
00:06:04:24   You have little bizarre things that move
00:06:07:19   and it's up to you to see what's happening.
00:06:14:19   The idea was that in an interactive media,
00:06:17:00   you would be sitting forward
00:06:19:05   and sometimes you sit back. We played on both sides.
00:06:22:09   It was really important, and this logic
00:06:24:18   which was to move from...let's say
00:06:26:10   not "passive" but "audiovisual".
00:06:28:11   You're telling a story anyway at some point.
00:06:31:12   At a certain moment you become active. It was both.
00:06:44:22   There was also the concept of navigating smoothly.
00:06:48:14   You move by horizontal or vertical travelling !
00:06:50:19   Diagonally as well and it was significant.
00:06:54:00   The biography was horizontal, the theories were vertical,
00:06:57:03   and diagonal was "After Freud".
00:07:01:13   It's my last Cd-rom and it was
00:07:03:12   not naive at all for once.
00:07:31:20   What is frightening in hard-line ergonomics,
00:07:35:07   is that it might establish recurrent systems.
00:07:37:15   It's happening at the moment:
00:07:39:15   any site looks like another.
00:07:41:07   Between Dior and Émaüs (charity),
00:07:43:19   I'm sure they look like each other in their ergonomy.
00:07:46:01   I have to check but I'm pretty sure.
00:07:49:11   However, if you go into an Emaüs or Dior boutique.
00:07:51:24   you are not at all in the same universe.
00:07:53:23   On the web everything is at the same level.
00:07:56:24   People are not aware that, ok, it's ergonomic.
00:07:59:07   You still have the same return button on the top left corner,
00:08:00:10   or the "buy" button here,
00:08:02:15   different sorts of validation.
00:08:04:20   You have a kind of vocabulary that has been put into place,
00:08:08:10   but when a brand wants to communicate via its website,
00:08:10:14   it conveys a lot of things by its image,
00:08:12:17   and also by the way to navigate,
00:08:14:00   lots of things happen
00:08:16:09   beyond the smooth ergonomic functioning.
00:08:40:10   Roy Gentilly, the artistic director for Issey Miyake,
00:08:41:15   heard about me.
00:08:43:18   I arrived with my little Cd-rom of Freud.
00:08:46:21   We discussed quite alot and seemed to get on.
00:08:48:19   His demand was that:
00:08:51:16   he'd like the web site to be
00:08:53:11   a kind of gift, a parade on the web
00:08:56:23   we will use the web for what it is,
00:08:58:23   we will not attempt to copy the paper or video,
00:09:00:09   up to you to express this point;
00:09:01:21   you have "carte blanche" !
00:09:06:07   But it has to match with the collection of course.
00:09:30:07   As each collection is totally different.
00:09:33:08   Naomi Takizawa started from zero,
00:09:35:23   and so for the site, we started from zero too.
00:09:39:19   You see ! You just draw a line with the mouse
00:09:44:08   and characters parade along your line.
00:09:46:10   This one is a view from above.
00:09:50:09   Here a system where the surfer creates his own choreography.
00:09:54:02   This one it's a kind of video game.
00:09:57:02   Early ideas are almost formal and interactive.
00:09:59:04   We were all fascinated by the interactive side,
00:10:01:05   it had to be interactive as it was a web site,
00:10:04:22   and little by little, after seven years of work and development.
00:10:07:21   I believe there were 27 different web sites made!
00:10:09:16   The site has really evolved into something
00:10:12:01   purer, simpler, more linear,
00:10:14:01   with less and less foolish interactivity !
00:10:14:21   The frenetic click !
00:10:16:21   However, better developped
00:10:19:22   in the shape and sound-image relationship.
00:10:34:08   For this collection related to Africa
00:10:37:02   they worked alot around the wind, the dust etc...
00:10:38:20   I was fed up of using the mouse and the keyboard
00:10:41:00   as interface.
00:10:45:00   Yoshi Island is a game on the Nintendo DS
00:10:48:23   where you have to draw your own routes
00:10:50:15   and when you've gone wrong, you blow
00:10:52:02   to erase what you did !
00:10:55:21   You only need to do it once
00:10:57:24   to understand and adopt it.
00:10:59:23   At first, I was interested on the idea of blowing
00:11:00:20   for the graphic treatment.
00:11:03:00   I did a lot of animations
00:11:05:10   with flour, sugar, a ventilator.
00:11:07:16   I tried in 3D but it didn't work !
00:11:08:24   From the time where I was happy
00:11:10:17   with what it gave visually.
00:11:14:02   I said to myself: "why not use real breathing !"
00:11:20:03   I have to blow on my screen.
00:11:25:01   It's pretty ridiculous to do, but it works very well.
00:11:29:10   Sometimes we have videos,
00:11:31:16   sometimes photos or slides,
00:11:33:16   it's a site where you can stroll
00:11:35:24   hands behind your back, blowing !
00:11:58:18   Sacha Gatino arrived with the second site.
00:12:00:18   He's a french sound designer.
00:12:03:01   He created the sound for the web site.
00:12:05:09   Then it was a real "ping pong match" between us.
00:12:07:13   Sometimes certain things are difficult
00:12:09:02   to express graphically,
00:12:12:09   and it's easier with the sound, or vice versa.
00:12:28:04   This parade was a crossover
00:12:32:09   of low-tech and high-tech systems.
00:12:34:12   For example, traditional fabrics with
00:12:38:05   high-tech assembly system or very modern fashion.
00:12:47:00   So how do we get this idea onto the web ?!
00:12:51:01   What represents the low tech on the web ?
00:12:52:24   On the first network systems,
00:12:54:18   people began by sending only text messages.
00:12:58:07   Very quickly, text games and adventures developed
00:13:01:24   and at the same time, the desire for images appeared
00:13:04:01   but sending a picture was not possible.
00:13:06:21   People began to make "ASCII art".
00:13:09:23   ie: With ASCII fonts, that are only letters
00:13:11:07   we managed to make images.
00:13:13:17   I started on this idea of a system
00:13:16:02   based solely on typography.
00:13:18:05   It gives you that, it's very simple.
00:13:20:03   You just have to click !
00:13:22:17   The order of models was very important for Naoky
00:13:24:03   so we respected the linearity.
00:13:27:20   You only can go backward or forward,
00:13:30:13   and navigate very easily in the dresses.
00:13:32:23   At the end the sound stops, there is practically no music,
00:13:34:11   only sound design,
00:13:38:02   and the site becomes whiter and whiter,
00:13:40:22   as Naoki said to me that after his depart from Miyake
00:13:46:12   he wanted to disapear, let only a white page !
00:14:11:09   Nokia approached us 3 years ago.
00:14:13:09   They were interested because we worked at the same time
00:14:15:20   for Issey Miyake and for Renault.
00:14:22:15   He then worked on a collection
00:14:24:18   which was called the "fashion".
00:14:26:23   Nokia, it's at the same time Industrial scale;
00:14:28:17   Nokia sells 1 billion phones a year
00:14:32:00   and they wanted to give it a touch of poetry...
00:14:34:01   And do as in fashion,
00:14:35:18   to succeed in changing our phones
00:14:37:21   like we do handbags.
00:14:39:22   Because now everyone has a phone.
00:14:43:20   I've got four in a drawer.
00:14:45:23   Why should I not have the latest !?
00:14:47:15   So we initially worked on it for a year,
00:14:48:22   for all Nokia phone screen backgrounds.
00:14:50:23   We worked enormously on the themes.
00:14:53:19   In France, you won't see them but you'll see them around the world.
00:14:56:02   I even have a photo with Tom Cruise using my screen background !
00:15:00:14   It was interesting as it was completely decorative !
00:15:02:05   We must have proposed 4000,
00:15:03:22   to end up with 100
00:15:06:09   of styles in all directions.
00:15:11:06   We then worked several times on experiments for new graphic interfaces,
00:15:12:22   and that was exciting and captivating:
00:15:14:18   there are studies showing you,
00:15:16:11   this is where we are, technically aswell,
00:15:17:16   and now let's go,
00:15:19:04   what can you imagine?
00:15:20:19   How could my grandmother telephone for example?
00:15:22:09   Does she need to chat ?
00:15:24:14   How to navigate with only the sound ?
00:15:27:16   How to get that your phone
00:15:29:06   gives you correct info just by
00:15:30:14   the changing of luminous intensity ?
00:15:34:18   To pass on information in a less direct way,
00:15:38:05   as you already have an idea of the message quantity
00:15:43:02   that you received without reading the screen
00:15:46:15   or whether you had an emergency call.
00:15:49:03   Between a bloke doing business,
00:15:52:07   a young Brazilian in the favela,
00:15:56:20   a young chinese, me, you, an eight year old girl,
00:15:59:01   we all have a phone. The uses of which are different.
00:16:01:06   But, they all have the same Nokia interface.
00:16:04:08   What do we do with what we have learned
00:16:06:17   on the actual uses for these people
00:16:09:18   to create and to adapt to their needs.
00:16:11:17   For designers the goal is to create
00:16:14:09   the uses, the behaviour
00:16:16:06   and propose interesting ideas,
00:16:17:20   in line with the new technical possibilities.
00:16:19:13   An example is happening in Africa at the moment,
00:16:22:07   where one can send oneself
00:16:24:20   telephone credits from one phone to another:
00:16:27:00   an economic system has been put into place
00:16:28:19   which replaces credit cards.
00:16:30:20   It's surprising, it was not planned!
00:16:34:00   What I learnt with Miyake
00:16:35:14   was to put some poetry into
00:16:37:21   this domain which is in fact very technical.
00:16:54:09   The book that made me become a graphic designer
00:16:57:04   was given by my father for my 14th birthday. |
00:16:59:23   My parents aren't at all
00:17:01:07   in the graphic domain,
00:17:05:24   but they offered me "Top Graphic Design"
00:17:08:18   there were posters from the Grapus movement
00:17:09:24   that I had never heard of at 14.
00:17:11:24   Big posters for the theatre
00:17:15:15   or political militantism,
00:17:18:21   which are really powerful, and when you're only 14
00:17:19:24   living in the suburbs,
00:17:21:14   at the beginning of the 80's,
00:17:23:14   your only references are the adverts.
00:17:25:21   So, that's a book that really influenced me.
00:17:32:03   This is "Siné-massacres", 1963
00:17:33:12   those who are really incredible
00:17:36:01   are "L'enragé" from May and June 1968
00:17:41:01   this one is "die general !" with the cross of Loraine,
00:17:43:13   if all the old men held hands...it would be ridiculous ! ,
00:17:44:15    prohibit defense , of course,
00:17:47:24   consumer society must perish of violent death.
00:17:50:21   In political documents, there is a graphic commitment
00:17:52:15   which is so powerful.
00:17:54:23   Like in these drawings from Siné,
00:17:56:09   or the photos from Bogota that I did.
00:17:59:08   What is interesting, and we are a long way from it in digital,
00:18:00:09   is the spontaneity.
00:18:03:18   The poster is done, stapled on a wall.
00:18:06:02   The painter did this one, with gouache,
00:18:07:08   under his bed during the bombings.
00:18:10:15   You see here we are in 72
00:18:13:13   at Hanoï, during Americans bombing of the city.
00:18:18:04   There is a feeling of urgence and neccesity
00:18:19:20   that no longer exists today.
00:18:23:16   The computer makes a filter, it doesn't kill creation,
00:18:26:22   but it softens the graphic edges.
00:18:28:22   To do something rough in webdesign
00:18:30:16   that really interests me,
00:18:34:10   to manage to arrive at something very powerfull like that.